This (as we all know) is the great theist argument. Anyone without God will seek depravity. Ummm... no. The great modern struggle is pleasure vs. happiness. We all actually seek happiness in our heart of hearts, but often get sidetracked by pleasure. Sure I'd like to spend my time becoming a better person, contributing to humanity, helping out a neighbor, enriching my life and the life of my family... but this Seinfeld episode is a REEEEEEEEALLY funny one... Pleasure. Rampant sex? Not so much. Don't drink, never really have. Maximize my enjoyment means trying to enjoy the time I have with friends and family. I also seek time to create and perform, this is where I find enjoyment. I also have finally found a career I enjoy. Life is wonderful --despite the lack of orgies...
The real question here is simple. Are all righteous people, specifically the pious Christians in American actually fighting a constant yearning to partake in any number of hedonistic activities? Is it actually in their human genetic code to satisfy the most depraved desires of their id? One can only assume this to be true because they seem to honestly believe that without the help of Jesus and the Holy Spirit, they'd instantly chuck their bible and defile their body and soul in the most vile and reprehensible ways without pause for the rest of their natural lives. Or in other words; commit acts similar to those of Catholic Priests over the past four or so decades.
It's simply not true. It's silly. Truth is, there is only one thing that might change if they were to toss their bible asside. They would stop judging others in ways that are undeniably unjust and inhumane by all reasoning and logic. Faith would no longer exist to sheild their conscience from cruelly baseless viewpoints and continued persecution would be unpalatable. They would be the people they believe Christianity helps them to be. Better people.
Sunday, April 30, 2006
Prayer
Prayer is a perfect point of contention. First of all, studies have shown it doesn't work. More importantly, it must be admitted that prayer does a hell of a lot more for the pray-er than the pray-ee. Studies have shown that prayer, if anything, does more harm than good (see study).
Okay, couple things here. To begin with, prayer as far as we can tell does not good, and actually has done more harm. In addition, prayer makes no sense as God has a plan. Do you think in his planning that he failed to take in to account the needs of you and your loved ones? Do you think he's omnipotent, but not quite that omnipotent? Was he planning to take the life of someone not because he needed them in heaven or it was their 'time', but rather just on a lark? If you pray, does he suddenly, not need the person in heaven and it suddenly wasn't their time? Why on earth would an all knowing God who can do anything at all possibly need someone?
None of this makes sense on any level. Take the results, for instance. If a prayer is answered, then the prayer worked. If the prayer fails to work, then it was God's will. Um, that's logic only an idiot could accept. This logic means the original death was, what... against God's will. Was he simply not paying attention. Was he only going to take the life if a whole bunch of peopled refrained from praying for them? If that's the case, then only popular people with a large support group are able to benefit from prayer. Lonely people or people with small families and small support groups will die far sooner than those in the opposite situation.
The only thing prayer does, is to help people in impossible emotional situations feel a little less helpless. Which would seem to be fine. Reducing suffering is generally good, but there are times when people might do more to help than simply asking for help for a non-existent being for no reason. If people need assistance due to a natural disaster, every minute gathering to pray instead of driving to help or gathering needed supplies or petitioning congress for more funds is actually harmful. One set of hands does more than any number of hands praying. The phrase is far too 'Chicken Soup for the Soul' for me, but it's absolutely true. Here's the real question, if the feeling of being helpless is a complete lie, then is it actually a good thing? If it's not helping, is your being ignorant of this good or harmful? If a person actually expects God to act and God fails to do so, is there not another level of pain? Is there not another level of confusion? Granted we're already denying the fact that we're helpless. We're already denying the fact of the reality of the situation. Is delusional comfort actually beneficial?
Let's look at what the Bible has to say on the subject of prayer:
6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.
8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
Let's sum up, shall we?
Okay, couple things here. To begin with, prayer as far as we can tell does not good, and actually has done more harm. In addition, prayer makes no sense as God has a plan. Do you think in his planning that he failed to take in to account the needs of you and your loved ones? Do you think he's omnipotent, but not quite that omnipotent? Was he planning to take the life of someone not because he needed them in heaven or it was their 'time', but rather just on a lark? If you pray, does he suddenly, not need the person in heaven and it suddenly wasn't their time? Why on earth would an all knowing God who can do anything at all possibly need someone?
None of this makes sense on any level. Take the results, for instance. If a prayer is answered, then the prayer worked. If the prayer fails to work, then it was God's will. Um, that's logic only an idiot could accept. This logic means the original death was, what... against God's will. Was he simply not paying attention. Was he only going to take the life if a whole bunch of peopled refrained from praying for them? If that's the case, then only popular people with a large support group are able to benefit from prayer. Lonely people or people with small families and small support groups will die far sooner than those in the opposite situation.
The only thing prayer does, is to help people in impossible emotional situations feel a little less helpless. Which would seem to be fine. Reducing suffering is generally good, but there are times when people might do more to help than simply asking for help for a non-existent being for no reason. If people need assistance due to a natural disaster, every minute gathering to pray instead of driving to help or gathering needed supplies or petitioning congress for more funds is actually harmful. One set of hands does more than any number of hands praying. The phrase is far too 'Chicken Soup for the Soul' for me, but it's absolutely true. Here's the real question, if the feeling of being helpless is a complete lie, then is it actually a good thing? If it's not helping, is your being ignorant of this good or harmful? If a person actually expects God to act and God fails to do so, is there not another level of pain? Is there not another level of confusion? Granted we're already denying the fact that we're helpless. We're already denying the fact of the reality of the situation. Is delusional comfort actually beneficial?
Let's look at what the Bible has to say on the subject of prayer:
Matthew 6 (New International Version)
5 "And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full.6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.
8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
9 "This, then, is how you should pray:
" 'Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10 your kingdom come,
your will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us today our daily bread.
12 Forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from the evil one.[a]'
14 For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
15 But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
...so, wait. Let me get this straight. All those, so called, people of faith who want to pray before football games, graduation and any other school event are actually defying the direct word of God? I could comment further, but what's the point. Hypocrisy speaks for itself and in this case it's using one of those giant cheerleader megaphones.Let's sum up, shall we?
- Prayer doesn't work, it actually hurts
- Prayer will have no effect on what God does, he has a plan
- Prayer is delusional
- Prayer takes time away from actual good works
- Public prayer is hypocrisy in the eyes of God
What will Christians claim next?
On another groups I just saw a post claiming there are no 'real' or 'true' atheists. This is just a repackaged argument from atheists stating that no Christians are 'true' (heck, even Christians say that ALL THE TIME!).
The latest argument has been that atheists don't think 'logically'. Seriously, check out a sermon or a radio program from the Christians. We freethinkers who use nothing BUT logic are now not using logic. I had another person wonder if logic was the best tool to use to determine things? I asked what should we use--ILLOGIC?
Anyway, my question is simple. What are the Christians going to throw at us next?
The latest argument has been that atheists don't think 'logically'. Seriously, check out a sermon or a radio program from the Christians. We freethinkers who use nothing BUT logic are now not using logic. I had another person wonder if logic was the best tool to use to determine things? I asked what should we use--ILLOGIC?
Anyway, my question is simple. What are the Christians going to throw at us next?
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